Interview: John Goldberger

This interview is co-interviewed by Henrik Berg (founder of Morjas) and Andreas Weinås. When I (Henrik) knew I was going to interview the man who knows more about watches than anyone else alive I needed to up my game. So I picked up my phone and called my friend Andreas who knows horological things better than anyone I know. All questions related to watches are Andreas credit. Thank you my friend.

[iPhone buzzing. New whatsapp message from Auro Montanari.]

“On Monday morning we can start with coffee at your hotel. Then we can have lunch in my house. Everything’s closed in Bologna.”

Let’s rewind the tape. My acquaintance with Goldberger started in Milano in spring 2019. I was in town and met with Luca Rubinacci for a drink during golden hour which then led to a visit at a small cocktail event at the Fortela store, the brand founded by Alessandro Squarzi.

Alessandro, shadowed by oak-glassed lenses from Jacques Marie Mage, greeted the guests with his big Italian smile. Next to him stood a man who looked like a combination of a James Bond villain, a business emperor and a vintage clothing trader. Washed out denim shirt, vintage leather jacket with severe patina and constructed shoulders. Accompanied with high waisted wool-twill tailored trousers in brown mélange. Finished with a pair of dark brown tassel loafers. Goldberger is bigger than the average Italian. Wide shoulders. North of 190cm tall. With eyes  noticing details like Jason Bourne. This man notices everything around him. You will not always notice that he notices. But he notices. Things that take others seconds to notice, Goldberger sees in a nanosecond. That’s his gift.

“Nice shoulders” he said in between a smoke. He pointed towards my shoulders. There’s been quite a rave about soft shoulders and spalla camicia the recent years. Although I get it, it’s not for me. I want my shoulders constructed and well-built. Call me old school. And apparently, so does Auro Montanari AKA John Goldberger. It was on this topic we bonded.

When I first met Goldberger I had no idea who he was. We started chatting about style, he curiously asked about Morjas, how I could live in Sweden during the winter and that he was genuinely interested in watches and vintage. You could never tell that this is a man who is known for having the world’s rarest watch collection. First character descriptions that come to mind? Humble. Reserved. Polite. Sharp. Likeable. Confident. Calm.

I wrapped up the evening with a picture on my IG story. In the picture: Luca Rubinacci, Alessandro Squarzi, Goldberger. If I didn’t know who Goldberger was before, I sure was about to find out. Dozens of messages from friends and followers flooded “Did you meet Goldberger..?”, “GOLDBERGER?”, “WTF!!”, “Nooooo”. Apparently I had met what in the world of watches is what Cristiano Ronaldo is in the world of football.

To my defense and what you can probably tell by now: I’m not a watch connoisseur. All I knew was that this is a man I wanted to put in a pair of Morjas. Little did I know that Goldberger had never done a campaign in the menswear space before. His mystique and rareness creates a sexy aura. Yes, a sexy aura. I want him in a pair of Morjas. A lot.

Fast-forward to September 2020. We had planned visiting Goldberger in his home in Bologna, but we decided to postpone the visit because of the pandemic. We set a new date in November.

When November approached I touched based with Goldberger who was still excited about doing the photo shoot. Yes it was Corona. Yes call me irresponsible. Yes call me whatever the * you want. But when opportunities like these arise in life, I will not let them slip. Pandemic or not. So, together with my loyal companion and photographer Abraham Engelmark I went to the local care center, took the PCR test, got the result and then travelled to Bologna, Italy.

We checked in at one of the few hotels that were open. One thing that struck me early on in my growing relationship with Auro is his thoughtfulness. Regularly during our trip he checked in to ask “How are you? How are things going?” followed with constant updates about the situation in Bologna and how he will ensure to take good care of us.

Reminder: people with big hearts genuinely wants the best for you. No matter who they are. They understand that a true act of goodwill always sparks another.

Sunday 10:48pm. New message from Goldberger: “Happy you arrived safe. Good night, see you tomorrow at 08.30 in the hotel”.

Monday 08.24am. “Buongiornio Signora”. The deep, rattling, Italian voice is familiar. From a distance I hear Goldberger greet the receptionist.

In walks a man that represent what coolness is all about. Low cut chukka boots in brown suede. Brown-grey flannel trousers. Cashmere jumper in chocolate. A tweed jacket. Worn with a vintage US army field jacket. This is how you work with contrasts to create a relaxed, timeless and above all, cool, look.

Goldberger:
Ciao my friends. How was the trip?

Henrik:
Very good thank you. Good to be in Bologna and change air for a couple of days.

Goldberger:
Cold in Sweden now?

Henrik:
Always.

Goldberger:
Good to have you here then. At least you can see some sun.  During the morning I’ve visited some of my favourite delicacies. As you know everything’s closed so today I will make the lunch. We will start with coffee at my house, then take some pictures and then I will prepare lunch. Good plan?

Henrik:
Much more than we could’ve wished for. You are too kind.

[4 bags with groceries. 4 different kind of bags from different kinds of special delicacy shops. Yes, I know how typical it is for southern Europeans to visit your favourite dealer depending on the produce. But I can’t help think of the metaphor in retail as well. Gone are the days when you buy everything in the same place. You find your favourite brands for each category, whether it’s underwear, shirts or shoes.]

Goldberger:
OK let’s go to my house.

[After a 10-minute walk we approach the building in which Goldberger live in an apartment together with his wife Francesca. We pass a big wooden door before stepping into the building.  It smells cold and warm at the same time. Like when rain hits the ground on a summer’s day. I believe the name for it is Petrichor. Goldberger lives on the third and fourth floor. We walk up the stairs to his floor. Each step of the staircase is 3-4 meters wide. You feel it. This is not your London claustrophobia-like type of staircase.]

Goldberger opens the door. “Welcome. Make yourself at home.”

[The first thing you see is a hall painted in deep burgundy. This is not an apartment. It’s not a house. Not a mansion. It’s a home. A home filled with warmth, love and most of all: history. My not-so-discrete photographer-friend, Abraham, starts taking pictures with his iphone to send to his interior architect wife. Abraham shows me his phone. A reply from his wife. The reply reads: ……….]

Yes. This is not your ordinary home. Not the kind of thing you see when browsing on pinterest. You have books, watches, paintings, furniture and decoration all sharing a beautifully decorated space that reminds you of an ancient time. It’s like stepping into another world. A world where you get to take things down a notch.

Goldberger
“Come. Come I will show you.”

[We are guided by Goldberger through room after room until we arrive to his dressing room. I would guess it’s about 35-40 square meters.]

“Here is where I dress.”

[I prepare the shoes. Goldberger selects the outfits.
Yes. I know. You want to know more about Goldberger’s home and how it looks in closer detail, but I will leave it at that. He has already opened up much more than ever before and it’s a step of intimacy and privacy I prefer to not exploit. All you need to know is that it’s WOW.]

[Already during the first outfit I understood that this is something beyond what you usually experience. Goldberger’s style is unique. It’s a combination of elegance, sharpness and casual. And I don’t want to interfere. When someone is good at what they do and they know what to do, you don’t interfere. Let them be and let them create magic. All styling was done by Goldberger himself.]

Goldberger
“All good? Happy? Great, let’s have lunch”.

Seeing Goldberger in the kitchen is relaxing. He never makes a move that is rushed or stressed. His body flows like a dance.

“I got this mozzarella which is the best you will ever taste. Here, taste.”

Yes. It’s the best mozzarella I’ve ever tasted.

Avocado and tomato salad, mozzarella, gorgonzola, mortadella, parma ham and smoked salmon.

“I bought this specially smoked salmon because I wanted to hear your opinion. You are from Sweden and you really know your salmon. It’s a friend who smokes the fish in a special way.”

Henrik:
It’s very good. The smokiness dampens the distinct taste of fish and makes it more elegant in its taste.

Goldberger:
Right? I think it’s really good. I’m happy to show you this.
You like wine?

Henrik:
Like a fat kid in a candy store.

Goldberger:
I will open this bottle that I bought a couple of years ago. You will see it’s really good.

[Pause. As you might have noticed by now, Goldberger is not your normal host. Everything he does, he does with a lot of care and love behind. He went up early to get groceries from his special contacts. He bought a special salmon just because he wanted us to taste it. He opens a bottle of pinot noir that makes Dionysos sing. He truly enjoys taking care of the people around him. It’s inspiring.]

Henrik:
Both Abraham and I don’t know what to say. We are incredibly thankful for everything you’ve done Auro. Thank you.

Goldberger:
My pleasure. Really my pleasure.

Henrik:
While we enjoy this soul-pleasuring lunch I will record on my phone. OK?

Goldberger:
Good thinking.

Henrik:
Many may know you by the name John Goldberger but it’s not your real name. Why did you choose this pseudonym?

Goldberger:
I wanted to stay private. I’m quite reserved and want to keep it that way. As you know this is the first time I open my home to a brand. My real name is Auro Montanari. Auro in latin means Gold. Berger in German means mountain. My surname is Montanari. Hence it’s a combination of the two. Auro Montanari is Goldberger.

Henrik:
You are born and raised in Bologna, Italy. What did your parents do for a living?

Goldberger:
My father founded a company which makes electronics components. We initially specialized in manufacturing and selling consumer products for off-air TV reception. In recent years we’ve moved more towards making enclosures to products such as for example the iPhone. It’s all very technical and niched. It’s still a family-owned business and I’m now the CEO of the company.

My parents were art collectors. They bought furniture, paintings from the 17^th and 16^th century. Most classic Italian art. They did it purely out of passion and interest for collecting. So when I was little I travelled a lot with my parents around the world to visit different exhibitions.

Henrik:
And this sparked your interest for collecting watches?

Goldberger:
Yes. My father noticed that I was bored during the art exhibitions, so he introduced me to watches. At the time watches in general were quite cheap if you compared to art. He saw there was an untapped category that could not only speak more to my interest, but also provide a window of opportunity to start collecting myself.

So I started visiting flea markets while my parents went to the exhibitions. And I discovered very cheaply priced watches from Rolex, Patek, Cartier. I mean very cheap. And this was around the 1970s.

Henrik:
Did you start buying right of the bat whatever appealed to your taste or did you buy out of knowledge?

Goldberger:
I followed two things: my heart and my eye. People have a hard time understanding and believing this, but this was my guiding compass when I started, and it’s still today my greatest advice I give to people who want to start collecting watches: invest in pieces that you truly like.

During that period there was no internet. Not a lot of books on watches. Not so much information about watches in general. As a result, it became natural to buy out of instinct. Because how could I know what I was buying when there was basically no information? It’s very charming when you look back at it. My father although recommended me to buy the big brands, like Rolex and Patek Philippe. He said that I shouldn’t buy from Cartier because that’s for “coiffeurs” (hairdressers). But I didn’t follow his recommendation on Cartier, because I love Cartier.

More wine?

Henrik:
Yes please. On that note. What’s the best food experience you’ve had?

Goldberger:
It was when I was in a Japan. A good friend and fellow watch collector took me to a sushi restaurant that was very hidden. It blew my mind and stands out as a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

Henrik:
What did you speak about around the dinner table when you were a kid?

Goldberger:
There were a lot of discussions about art. Different kinds of art. Its origin. Its history. I’m eternally grateful for the lessons in history that my parents taught me. It helped me understand the world and its history in a wider perspective.

Henrik:
Were there any values that seemed important to your family that followed you from an early age?

Goldberger:
Know what you’re buying whatever it is you’re buying. Even if you buy based purely on taste, know what you’re buying. And this was of course hard when there was not a lot of information back when I started. But I learned a lot from flea markets, libraries and other watch enthusiasts.

Henrik:
Were you good in school?

Goldberger:
To be honest I didn’t pay much attention. But I enjoyed the subjects I was interested in with great depth.

Henrik:
I can tell.

Goldberger:
Like mathematics, physics, chemistry.

Henrik:
And history?

Goldberger:
I got that from home. But you know math and physics plays a role in the world of watches. I’m interested in understanding how things work.

Henrik:
What was your dream growing up when you were a child?

Goldberger:
To become an Astronaut. And I was very into science fiction.

Henrik:
What was your first watch and do you still have it in your collection?

Goldberger:
The first watch was a present from my father when I did the Confirmation in the catholic church. I did the confirmation in 1965 when I was 8 years old. My father gave me the watch that was made in 1957 which is almost vintage. And 1957 was the year I was born.

The second watch was on my 18^th birthday which was also a present from my father. It was a Pulsar from Tiffany. In steel. From New York.

After that I started buying for myself. The first one I bought to myself was a small art deco Rolex chronograph made in the 40s. I bought it in 1978 in a small antique shop in Bologna.

I still have all of them in my collection.

Henrik:
You are now 63 years old. If you were to describe your life in decades, how would that look like?

Goldberger:
Up until I was twenty my biggest passion was photography. I was obsessed with that. My father gave me a pretty good camera, a Leicaflex Hasselblad, an analog. This was my tool that grew my passion for photography.

When I was 22 years old, I moved to Venice Beach in California to study Graphic Design. It was a really fun time with lots of photography and basketball playing. I have a younger brother who joined me on the adventures.

When I approached 30, I was very focused on watches in general and design. I enrolled in the family company to handle everything in design. Art directing product catalogs, advertising. The branding. The marketing. Everything creative.

During 30-40 I came back to live in Italy. I learned to understand the business of my family at a deeper level. This was more of an apprentice period where I got deeply involved in the company.

Between 40-50 I was in an intense period of working. I managed to carve out a couple of hours per day to read, follow and learn about watches as it’s my biggest passion. But the majority of the time was really spent on working.

In my 50-60s I became the CEO of the company and started to enjoy traveling, visiting flea markets, attending auctions around the world and having a bit more time to watches.

Henrik:
Have you made a living from buying and selling watches?

Goldberger:
No, it’s purely out of passion.

Henrik:
Mm. Yes. Diplomatic answer. You have one of the world’s rarest watch collections.

Goldberger:
So they say. But I do it out of pure passion. My work and my career lies in my family company.

Henrik:
Dream watch?

Goldberger:
There is actually one watch that never went on the market. I was a big fan of a Sci-Fi movie called “A Space Odyssey” from 1968. And for that film Hamilton designed a watch with curved design that they made only in six samples. But it never went on the market. That is a watch I would really like to have. The original from the movie.

Henrik:
Is there any watch that you regret selling?

Goldberger:
Every time. Every single time I sell a watch I feel a bit sad.

Henrik:
What is it about a watch that captures your attention? Is it in general the rarity, design, provenance or movement?

Goldberger:
The rarity and the quality. It has to be a good mix between beauty, rarity and quality. Buy something you like to wear. It’s a passion. Not an investment.

Henrik:
Your collection and work have focused on some of the most important pieces from brands like Rolex, Cartier and Patek Philippe, is there any particular brand that you are paying more attention to at the moment?

Goldberger:
Longines. It was a very strong company during the first half of the past century that produced unique watches for the military, aviation, exploration and so on. Good technique and nice design. A nice brand that has flown a bit under the radar.

Henrik:
Quartz watches – What are your thoughts?

Goldberger:
There are definitely a few interesting watches in this field. Especially the first watches by Seiko. The first by Bulova. And by Pulsar. I like the design of these watches during the end of the 60s.

Henrik:
Ever since the now iconic scene in the Talking Watches episode by Hodinkee where you casually opened the case back of an extremely rare Rolex Chronograph with a cheese knife, I´ve felt like you have a very relaxed way of looking at even the most exclusive pieces in your collection.

Goldberger:
Yes sure. But don’t be fooled. I’ve opened thousands and thousands of watches in my life so even though I’m relaxed, I’m paying a lot of respect to the watch, because I know in my sleep how to do it.

But yes, at the end of the day it’s just a watch. Even though I love watches you must remember that it’s a watch. It’s a thing. Even though it’s beautiful, rare and of high quality it’s still just a thing. If you’re too caught up and too tense about the watches, you take away the enjoyment of the watch in the first place. I think that’s pretty central in my way of looking at this.

Henrik:
Most of your watches seem to be vintage. How do you feel about modern watches and the current state of the industry?

Goldberger:
There are a few nice modern watches. For sure.

For me the most incredible modern watch manufacturer is Richard Mille. Because their watches are highly unusual, they have their own unique identity and they don’t copy others. They are all-in and don’t compromise. They invest a lot in research and design which is exciting to see for a watch enthusiast. The designs are extremely advanced and meticulously executed. So overall it’s a very well manufactured watch. Maybe a little expensive, but I do love them.

My favourite from them is the Bubba Watson version. It’s a Tourbillon with magnesium case. It’s so light it can float on the water.

Henrik:
Besides your impeccable watches, you have an excellent taste in art and style in general. Are you passionate about clothes and shoes?

Goldberger:
Yes, very. I have two tailors that I’ve gone to the majority of my life. Then I combine my style with vintage pieces that I can find anywhere. I like to combine relaxed pieces with more formal attire. It creates a nice contrast. Like this. A pair of wool trousers, a polo shirt, a jacket and a pair of loafers. That’s all you need right?

Henrik:
A mix of casual, formal and vintage.

Goldberger:
Yes that’s a good way to put it.

Henrik:
You mostly sell watches on auction and not so much in private. How come?

Goldberger:
Yes, to a great extent. It’s very hard to find private collectors with the magnitude. I prefer the auction because then everyone has access to the watch. It’s open to everyone right? I think that makes sense.

Henrik:
What has changed in the watch collecting community since you started and what are your predictions for the future collectors?

Goldberger:
You can describe it very simple. Before, the watch industry and its collector community was closed. Today it’s open for everyone.

And by far the biggest reason to why that is, is the internet. Which we have to thank.

My prediction for the future is that more young collectors are emerging which is exciting to see. And especially from anywhere in the world. Everything has become more open.

Henrik:
Is there any particular watch in your collection that you would never consider to part with?

Goldberger:
I love all my watches, but of course. The first one I got from my father lies extremely close to my heart.

Henrik:
If you were to advise a young aspiring collector, what or where would you suggest one to start?

Goldberger:
Focus on tool watches. Diving. Chronographs. Watches created from the 50s to the 70s. Start with that to learn and then you can develop from there.

Henrik:
You sold a watch, dubbed the unicorn, for 6.5 MUSD and donated the money to charity. That says a lot about you.

Goldberger:
Well, it’s a really good charity. I decided before the auction that I would donate the money.

Henrik:
Mm. Just like that.

[For 30 seconds we’re silent. I’m looking at Auro. He’s looking gently at me. He looks up. I’m trying to understand what’s guiding this man behind the surface. He is personal, but reserved. He is generous, but private. What early-life lessons sculpted this man into the individual he is today? What values were instilled in him when he was a child that made him to being one of the most humble men I’ve met?]

Henrik:
You should be proud of yourself Auro. I know that you keep waving it away, but you should honor it.

Goldberger:
Thank you. Thank you. I’m happy you enjoy it. On another note, the endorsement we spoke about for this campaign: please donate it to Morjas social mission The Shoe That Grows.

Henrik:
You serious?

Goldberger:
Yes Henrik. Look. I have everything I need. We just finished a good lunch, had good wine and I’m healthy. What more could I ask for? The children in your cause need it much more than I do.

Henrik:
Thank you Auro. I know that Kenton who is the founder of The Shoe That Grows will be over the moon as many organizations have pulled the plug with donations during Covid. It means a lot.

Goldberger:
My pleasure.

Auro looks up. Thinks. Asks: “How is it in Sweden during the summer?”

Henrik:
Incredibly beautiful with lots of light. Let’s make a deal. When the pandemic is over I will invite you and Francesca to Sweden and it will be our turn to host. Deal?

Goldberger:
I would love that. I know my wife will be very excited. Thank you. Maybe already this summer?

Henrik:
Yes I really hope so.

[We wrap up the day. I’m going back to the hotel impacted by Auro’s way of living. Guided by love and simplicity on how to look at things.  When others complicate, Auro simplifies. It’s a good reminder in life.]

Our campaign with Goldberger was shot at his house in Bologna, Italy. Photographer is Abraham Engelmark. Creative direction and styling by Goldberger and Henrik Berg.